Credible Handwriting Machine

In case you don’t have enough to worry about, someone has built a credible handwriting machine:

This is still a work in progress, but the project seeks to solve one of the biggest problems with other homework machines, such as this one that I covered a few months ago after it blew up on social media. The problem with most homework machines is that they’re too perfect. Not only is their content output too well-written for most students, but they also have perfect grammar and punctuation ­ something even we professional writers fail to consistently achieve. Most importantly, the machine’s “handwriting” is too consistent. Humans always include small variations in their writing, no matter how honed their penmanship.

Devadath is on a quest to fix the issue with perfect penmanship by making his machine mimic human handwriting. Even better, it will reflect the handwriting of its specific user so that AI-written submissions match those written by the student themselves.

Like other machines, this starts with asking ChatGPT to write an essay based on the assignment prompt. That generates a chunk of text, which would normally be stylized with a script-style font and then output as g-code for a pen plotter. But instead, Devadeth created custom software that records examples of the user’s own handwriting. The software then uses that as a font, with small random variations, to create a document image that looks like it was actually handwritten.

Watch the video.

My guess is that this is another detection/detection avoidance arms race.

Tags: , , ,

Posted on May 23, 2023 at 7:15 AM • 34 Comments

Comments

K.S. • May 23, 2023 7:53 AM

Perhaps it is time to rethink homework and instead have in-class writing sessions?

JimFive • May 23, 2023 8:15 AM

This might be useful for a math class but nobody writes essays at home by hand. It’s all on the chromebook/laptop.

Clive Robinson • May 23, 2023 8:34 AM

@ ALL,

And the machines will be made available to discerning Law Enforcment agencies via “Confessions R Us” for a nominal fee and on going support costs…

Whilst I’m only slightly joking in the above, it does bring into question a real problem. As I’ve mentioned before in most places “evidence” is pieces of paper that are in quite a number of cases “hand written”.

People should ask two questions,

1, What would be required for an AI to fake up evidence to start a trial?
2, What would we need to do to stop 1 happening?

Remember in most places evidence is only nominally secured via the “chain of evidence” which basically does not mean very much other than people passing it from person to person and signing for it. So it’s realy quite open if you plan to subvert it in any number of ways…

Jess • May 23, 2023 8:36 AM

What arms race? Who is developing countermeasures to deploy to every grade school classroom in case a kid builds one of these? I might even call it a movie-plot threat.

ncdoyle • May 23, 2023 9:38 AM

@ Jess,

Who is developing countermeasures to deploy to every grade school classroom

I’d guess plagiarism-detection services such as TurnItIn. For upward of 20 years now, there’s been controversy about students being forced to upload their work there to train machine-learning models. Now that computers are pretty good about recognizing printed or handwritten text, I imagine teachers will soon be able to upload student papers to such services without telling anyone, and even have them grade the papers and “hand-write” comments.

At the same time, the idea from K.S. about rethinking homework has been gaining popularity. It’s well known that the students of affluent parents get help from those parents, and the students of poor parents might be working (at real jobs or just chores) to the extent that they don’t even have time to attempt it themselves. There have therefore been serious proposals to have students simply read the textbooks in advance, and do the “homework” in class where they might be able to ask intelligent questions and get them answered—instead of getting stuck or having to muddle through without really understanding.

anon • May 23, 2023 9:40 AM

Didn’t Encylopedia Brown do this in the 70’s?

On a serious note, does the latest generation actually know how to write?

Wayne • May 23, 2023 11:02 AM

The thing that makes this detectable is constant pen pressure. Look at the back of any checks that you fill out or any forms that you do: you’ll see pen impressions pushing through. This won’t have it. And unless you create a roboarm to do the writing and vary the pen pressure, which will grossly inflate the printing time, this is more an amusing novelty than anything else.

anon • May 23, 2023 11:12 AM

@wayne: Isn’t that only true if the paper is on a soft surface, like a leather desktop or a full pad of paper?

Danny Dunn • May 23, 2023 11:29 AM

I’m glad to see someone working on the device I described in my book “Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine”. I’ll just mention, in passing, that I was able to solve the “too perfect” problem by changing the angle of the pencil to create identical papers that had different handwriting.

Good job!

Clive Robinson • May 23, 2023 11:46 AM

@ Anon, wayne,

Re : The door swings both ways.

“Isn’t that only true if the paper is on a soft surface, like a leather desktop or a full pad of paper?”

Pretty much, though even writing on a single sheet of paper on an incompressable surface like glass will still show some differences due to the way the mechanics of the human fingers, wrist, arm etc join together.

But for the security minded, writing on single sheets of paper on glass or similar is still a well recognised security precaution. Provided of course that you remember to wipe the glass down both before and after writing (there is a form of ESDA test that alledgadlt will pick up pen tracings in the layer of dust that builds up constantly, especially as it’s said ~80% of dust is dead human…).

vas pup • May 23, 2023 4:21 PM

Detecting stress in the office from how people type and click +++
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/04/230411150512.htm

“In Switzerland, one in three employees suffers from workplace stress. Those affected often don’t realise that their physical and mental resources are dwindling until it’s too late. This makes it all the more important to identify work-related stress as early as possible where it arises: in the workplace.

Researchers at ETH Zurich are now taking a crucial step in this direction. Using new data and machine learning, they have developed a model that can tell how stressed we are just from the way we type and use our mouse.

And there’s more: “How we type on our keyboard and move our mouse seems to be a better predictor of how stressed we feel in an office environment than our heart rate,” explains study author Mara Nagelin, a mathematician who conducts research at the Chair of Technology Marketing and the Mobiliar Lab for Analytics at ETH Zurich. Applied correctly, these findings could be used in future to prevent increased stress in the workplace early on.

“People who are stressed move the mouse pointer more often and less precisely and cover longer distances on the screen. Relaxed people, on the other hand, take shorter, more direct routes to reach their destination and take more time doing so,” Nagelin says.

What’s more, people who feel stressed in the office make more mistakes when typing. They write in fits and starts with many brief pauses. Relaxed people take fewer but longer pauses when typing on a keyboard.

!!!The connection between stress and our typing and mouse behavior can be explained with what is known as neuromotor noise theory: “Increased levels of stress negatively impact our brain’s ability to process information. This also affects our motor skills,” explains psychologist Jasmine Kerr, who researches with Nagelin and is a coauthor of the study.

=>However, workplace stress detection also raises some thorny issues: “The only way people will accept and use our technology is if we can guarantee that we will anonymize and protect their data. We want to help workers to identify stress early, not create a monitoring tool for companies,” Kerr says. In another study involving employees and ethicists, the researchers are investigating which features an app needs to have to meet these requirements and ensure responsible handling of sensitive data.”

JonKnowsNothing • May 23, 2023 4:22 PM

@Clive, ALL

re: And the machines will be made available to discerning Law Enforcment agencies via “Confessions R Us” …

IANAL

From MSM reports and MSM coverage of some legal proceedings, there have been images of legal exhibits showing hand written self-confessions of the accused. In those cases, LEAs required the accused to write out in long hand (block or cursive) a pre-prepared statement as provided by the LEA. LEAs were then able to produce this “self written by own hand and self signed document” as evidence of a voluntary confession.

It will be so much easier not to have to go through all that trouble.

===

see: Holographic will (examples of requirements for acceptance)

Ralph Haygood • May 23, 2023 4:42 PM

Hilarious! “their content output [is] too well-written for most students”: More precisely, it’s too well written for a student feeble-minded enough to try using a “homework machine” instead of just doing their homework. I was sent to private schools with supposedly higher standards than the local public schools, but even there, homework assignments were rarely challenging.

Clive Robinson • May 23, 2023 7:38 PM

@ Ralph Haygood, ALL,

Re : Not understanding the system.

“… but even there, homework assignments were rarely challenging.”

Do you understand how it’s supposed to work?

If you look at a class of thirty odd students, their abilities follow a normal distribution curve.

The homework like the course work is designed to pull the bottom third to a half over the pass line.

Thus if you are in the upper third you will not find the work challenging, in fact you will find it either boring or holding you back.

The real problem happens to those where there are two or more classes, the “topmost class” gets filled by “streaming” the supppsed best.

But with fixed class sizes it’s easy to see how more than the top half of the second class will be in the wrong grouping, and the distribution far from normall and more like a step function. Thus that top half or more will be left unchallenged and become lazy. Because their work is actually set before they are even put in that group by the “expectations” of what the bottom third of that second group is supposed to be but is not actually.

Sometimes it goes realy wrong… My son was in the top half of the top group when a “bulge class” was introduced. The assumption by the education authoriry was that they would need another class to cover the low side of the median… The result was there was a significant gap between the level of work in the top group and the two second groups. The results were not at all good.

Despite warnings from School Governors –of which I was one– they actually further downgraded the following year… The result my son and something like 15 other pupils were taught exactly the same thing for three years in succession and that was worse than the year before, so four years of basically useless teaching at the most time critical of any childs education.

I raised a series of complaints and organised other parents to complain… The result they decided to re-elect the Governors, but my paperwork mysteriously disapeared. And they selectived without an election…

The Head of the School got awarded an MBE but just a couple of years later was mired in serious fraud alegations / investigations, that realy did not surprise me in the slightest.

Other shenanigans were uncovered, thankfully I was nolonger a governor which was a relief, as under UK legislation the position carries “unlimited liability”. But unknown to the other governors and the education autgority I’d actually recorded all the meetings so I could draw up accurate transcripts… Likewise I kept all Emails in printed out form with full headers and signed and dated them. So when I got questions that were obviously trying to implicate I unlike other governors had a solid position to defend myself. And perhaps most importantly a friend who shall we say had a level of legal training above which the school or local education authoriry could aford to access…

Proving I guess it’s not “What” but “Who” you know and “How” prepared you are.

Legal action is suprisingly to many not about justice or right/wrong, but people winning. Thus those attacking almost always will go after the weakest opponent, or who can least defend themselves.

You demonstrate very early on that if you are attacked you will emasculate / eviscerate all those foolish enough to proceed[1] then they tend to look for easier prey. The trick then is to “roll them up” by helping each person they attack in turn untill the attackers run out of potential prey. Then you counter strike on mass and make it clear to your chosen target they do exactly as told or face consequences they can not survive… Sometimes that means making some gormless midlevel time server not just unemployed, but loose their pension, and even their house… You would be surprised how quickly the message gets around. The trick is to “carve them out from the herd” thus their employeer and colleges turn against them as they get “thrown to the lion”…

Not a nice thing to do but then if they start, what can they realy expect?

As a certain friend points out,

“Vlad the Impaler, had the right idea, he expressed in his letter to the burghers of Brasov.”[1]

[1] In Vlad’s letter to the burghers of Brasov he propsed a union of effort and mutual support, and noted,

“When a man or a prince is strong and powerful he can make peace as he wants to, but when he is weak, a stronger one will come and do what he wants to him.”

Vlad’s chosen method of showing strength was to impale people by the thousands along roadways, to show invaders what was likely to be their fate… Quick death on the battlefield or slow death as an example to others either way dead. That is there could be “no surrender” by either side once hostilities had started, thus turning around and going away realy would be the best option…

Clive Robinson • May 23, 2023 8:03 PM

@ JonKnowsNothing,

Yup… I’m aware of it… In fact there is a video of a Police Officer describing the process along with the abusive process of the “Reid Interrogation Technique” to legal students up on YouTube.

The Reid Interrogation Technique is “allegadly” designed to be a form of reasonable investigation. However it’s use has often been found to be a form of both mental and physical tourture… Which has earnt the company and one LE agency a massive award of damages.

But that did not stop them foolishly starting legal action against Netflix, and thus acted as “negitive promotion” thus increasing numbers moving away from the technique,

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/oct/15/when-they-see-us-ava-duvernay-netflix-lawsuit-reid

I would say more but as you’ve seen some of my posts have just vanished recently… So as that makes posting pointless, I’m going to be posting a lot less from now on.

Bcs • May 23, 2023 9:44 PM

FWIW, my prediction on this class of AI arms race is that eventually detection will have a slight advantage (one flaw is all detection needs, where as the other side needs to avoid all flaws) but that it’s mostly a matter of who has more resources/money to throw at it.

Clive Robinson • May 23, 2023 10:29 PM

@ Bcs, ALL,

“my prediction on this class of AI arms race is that eventually detection will have a slight advantage”

But is it going to be enough of an advantage and more importantly for how long…

For a criminal conviction, the burden of proof is “Beyond Reasonable Doubt” that is actually quite a high standard to achieve.

For what many call civil cases it is “Balance of probability” which actually can still be difficult to meet.

But outside of the court we tend to talk of false positives and false negatives or Type I and Type II errors.

It’s known for instance that many real life tests have significant false positives or false negatives, the trick is to use two or more tests that have opposite failings or bias so effectively cancelling out. Unfortunately finding two fully independent tests is hard enough in physical systems let alone two that in effect balance each other.

So when you get one test says “Real” and the other says “Fake” with which do you go?

Then as “signals” become smaller you have an issue of “noise” the usual solution of which is to take multiple readings and average them.

Whilst this sounds “good in theory” in practice it’s hard and fraught with problems on a “one shot analysis”.

But lets say you come up with a test that works on past examples, what happens with future examples?

Well a big chunk of that answer is dependent on if that test is public or not…

Anything not public will be viewed with suspicion and rightly so, but anything public can result in “tuning to the test”.

We see this with malware writers and AV software. A malware writer just keeps adjusting their payload untill it gets past all the major AV software. As the malware writer does not do this publically but the AV software is public then this gives a significant advantage to the malware writer. The same would be true for any AI system developer…

JonKnowsNothing • May 23, 2023 10:56 PM

@Clive, @ Bcs, ALL

re: For a criminal conviction, the burden of proof is “Beyond Reasonable Doubt” that is actually quite a high standard to achieve.

IANAL

From other MSM sources, US Prosecutors do not require this burden of proof if they can get the accused to agree to a Plea Deal. You do not have to be guilty, just terrified of the potential outcomes, as LEAs ratchet up their demands.

It’s beyond the “Reid Interrogation Technique” mentioned above.

In the “Reid Interrogation Technique”, direct and indirect methods of psychological manipulation takes place, in order to obtain a “confession”. There was a popular MSM TV program that followed homicide officers while they tried to find the perpetrator. One of the hallmarks of the show, was the interview. All the “Reid Interrogation Technique” in full panoply display.

This other process, is called Superseding Indictment. In this situation, the LEAs pull out increasingly threatening outcomes if you do not accept the plea deal. In some of the reports of the Dec37 crowd, this method is and was used to ratchet up the potential punishment until the person agreed “to cooperate”. 5 years is better than 50 years.

AFAIK a Plea counts as a case Win for the prosecution’s conviction percentages. Looks good on paper, not too much court time, not too much distraction from (fill in the daily list) and your pay grade gets a good bump up with added benefit of No pesky Burden of Proof conditions.

===

htt ps://en.wikipedia.o rg/wiki/Indictment

  • A superseding indictment takes the place of the previously active one.

(url fractured)

Matthias U • May 24, 2023 2:30 AM

In some places (like Germany) your ast Will And testament MUST either be hand-written by yourself, no typing allowed, OR you need to get it notarized.

The law around here will have a field day with that thing.

Winter • May 24, 2023 2:31 AM

@Clive, All

Yup… I’m aware of it… In fact there is a video of a Police Officer describing the process along with the abusive process of the “Reid Interrogation Technique” to legal students up on YouTube.

The only rational strategy when interrogated by the US police [1] is:
Do not Play
(say: No Comment)

Just watch this YouTube video where a professor at law and a police officer explain it in excruciating detail:
Don’t Talk to the Police
‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Text
‘https://larryformanlaw.com/why-you-should-never-talk-to-the-police-period/

[1] YMMV in other countries, but you can ALWAYS ask for your lawyer to be present if you are in a country that does not torture suspects.

Winter • May 24, 2023 2:32 AM

Part 2

@Clive, All

Yup… I’m aware of it… In fact there is a video of a Police Officer describing the process along with the abusive process of the “Reid Interrogation Technique” to legal students up on YouTube.

Never Talk To The Police (With One HUGE Exception!)
(explains it)
‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGps1ke4kU0

See also John Oliver on Police Interrogations:
‘https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obCNQ0xksZ4
Text:
‘https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-police-interrogation-lying-reid-technique-1338924/

JonKnowsNothing • May 24, 2023 7:09 AM

@Winter, Clive, All

re: USA Cops: Do not Play (say: No Comment)

IANAL

This may or may not work. It may be extremely hazardous even in small encounters. It also depends exactly where the encounter takes place, and where further encounters take place.

Nearly every country on the globe now has a form of “off shore” style detention camps, where Rule of Law is limited and infraction penalties are extreme. The USA has a number of options, particularly if LEAs have a “suspicion” that you may not be a US Citizen such as accents, word order sentences and racial features. When in doubt, they will incarcerate you until you can proof your citizenship status, which is not easy to do under the controlled conditions of these detention centers. Plenty of US Citizens have been sent there for “holding”.

The Do Not Talk and Everyone Walks part only works in a system where the LEAs work by the rule book. There are MSM stories every day about how USA LEAs bend the rules to suit themselves.

The more common tactic, will be to take you someplace, an intermediate place, stick you in an ice cold, air conditioned room, with no jacket or blanket, no chairs, with no food, no water, no toilet for hours. The Reid Interrogation Technique will be applied with enhancements learned from GITMO until you agree to do whatever it is they want you to do.

You don’t have to have broken any laws, the FBI/CIA may simply want you to spy for them and be their collaborator, getting details on whatever they are interested in. That of course, might be against the laws in your normal jurisdiction or moral compass.

When confronted with the possibility of spending weeks or months or years, in such an environment, desperate for a toilet, dehydrated, hungry, worried about threats made to yourself and your family, pretty much everyone signs the papers.

I have no particular suggestion for finding yourself in such a situation, nearly everything you can think of has already been considered. I would suggest, just going on the floor. You can be certain you action will be filmed, berated, threatened with exposure (both kinds) but at least you can empty your bladder and bowels. (1)

===

1) In the USA, under specific hospital protocols, people are left in rooms with no windows, no furniture, no toilet and at best a drain in the floor, often there is no visible drain. They may have to be in such a room for a long time. Going on the floor is part of the “healing process”. Having a sheet of toilet paper is a reward for compliance.

Clive Robinson • May 24, 2023 7:21 AM

@ Winter,

The first vidio is the one I was refering to.

In it you hear the police officer mention that in some countries the Police are a law unto themselves including beating people sensless quite lawfully as a warm up…

Oh in the UK MSM yesterday,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52910472

What that does not talk about in it’s time line is the Portuguese Senior Police Officers behaviour and the numerous false alegations made by Portuguese Police and one Officer in particular who did it for financial benifit[1]. To get the story on that you will have to search online newspaper archives.

You will see perfectly normal activities by the parents being portrayed as suspicious behaviour.

[1] He basically wrote a pack of nonsense as a book, and the Portuguese legal system initially awarded the parents damages then as was noted by some “the fix went in” and it was overturned and as a last resort they went to the ECHR who basically looked the other way.

The justices excuses were a curious form of circular logic, basically saying that because the police officer had first made his false statments in his capacity as a police officer –in charge of the case– and made them public, then the parents could not have had their lives made worse by the book, written by him when it was published curiously just days after the police on the officers advice wrongly closed the case…

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2022/09/21/madeleine-mccanns-parents-lose-european-court-challenge-over-portuguese-libel-case/

Winter • May 24, 2023 8:42 AM

@

IANAL

Those making the videos all are practicing criminal defense lawyers, and some teach it at University too.

This may or may not work. It may be extremely hazardous even in small encounters. It also depends exactly where the encounter takes place, and where further encounters take place.

No Comment is always a legal response in the US. Consulting with a lawyer is too.

Winter • May 24, 2023 11:01 AM

@Clive

In it you hear the police officer mention that in some countries the Police are a law unto themselves including beating people sensless quite lawfully as a warm up…

That is clear. But it is of absolutely no relevance when you are arrested in, eg, Canada, Norway, or Germany.

I do not think there is any useful advice to give on how to behave when you will be tortured by the police. Maybe Amnesty International can help you here.[1]

For this discussion, the only rational advice is: Do not talk to the police.

When in doubt, ask your lawyer, but never listen or talk to the police.

[1] In, eg, Russia, a defense lawyer is part of palliative care.

Clive Robinson • May 24, 2023 2:10 PM

@ Winter,

If I heard the officer correctly he identified “Italy” as being one where you might find yourself roughed up.

But there are believable stories about police in Canada and Alaska, taking people for rides late in the night in winter. And as we know a certain US city had a “black site” where people would just disapear for several days, untill they either confessed or were “persuaded” to be informants.

As for the UK well the stories about “private contractors” for both prisons and immigration detention centers are not at all good… Oh and remember though you have a right to silence, Tony Blair with the man he used to live with introduced that “but if you do not say when questioned anything you later rely on”… And the horrendous “bad character gateways” where you can be accused by any hearsay, yet have no right of cross questioning or rebuttal…

https://www.defence-barrister.co.uk/bad-character

France has a known “move them on” policy with not just immigrants but also certain ethnic and religious minorities.

As for other EU countries Spain has a poor reputation as do others not in the North and West of the EU.

French Mailman • May 24, 2023 2:16 PM

Faking handwritten homework assignments is only the tip of the iceberg. What this invention really challenges is every area of society where handwritten texts and signatures are still the norm.

This includes financial documents, such as cheques, as well as notarized documents such as testaments.

JonKnowsNothing • May 24, 2023 7:32 PM

@Winter

re: No Comment is always a legal response in the US. Consulting with a lawyer is too.

No it is not.

We have 1st Amendment protections, they are limited in many ways and have become more limited in recent years.

It will depend on where you are when you are detained and by which agency. There are imaginary lines of “no mans land” all over, and in places you would not even consider to be outside the legal boundaries of the USA. Once you put a toe over it, you have No Rights At All.

Our MSM is fulled with the daily toll of “wrong place, wrong time, wrong phrase”. Even with HAIL Warnings, there are plenty of RL cases where No Answer is a Death Sentence. You may not be able to answer, loss of hearing, contradictory commands (hands up, lie down, stop moving, shut up, do as I say) resulting in a barrage of lethal firearms.

If you are detained at a bus station, train station, airport or within 100 miles of any of these, you can be lawfully detained and categorized as being outside the USA, in No Mans Land. A large number of the citizens in the USA live within 100 miles of such facilities, and daily travel within the 100 mile radius of one or more.

Be silent IF you can. Ask for a lawyer IF you can. Don’t be surprised IF you Can’t.

RL tl;dr

Post 911 in USA, we learned about Black Sites and Jurisdiction Hopping and Rendition Flights. One very common method of enacting and holding a US Citizen was to have them arrested in another country, while of vacation or study abroad or as they crossed No Mans Land. Extreme charges would be brought (ex murder) to hold the US Citizen in the foreign prison and foreign justice system. The role of the US State Department and US Embassy (system) is not what you might desire should you be detained in another country. You will have even lower expectations once you realized you are being detained there by US request.

There are Famous US Citizen names, historical and current, who are subject to this. There are even more Ordinary US Citizens who are caught in the same web. A famous person might get MSM coverage and a prisoner exchange. An ordinary person, trades publicity for food, limited beatings, and a 5min phone call home.

Matthias U • May 25, 2023 6:29 AM

Umm,

But it is of absolutely no relevance when you are arrested in, eg, Canada, Norway, or Germany.

You assume that the suspect in question is reasonable white, clean (i.e. not obviously homeless), and whatnot.

This assumption does not hold for a significant number of people.

Winter • May 25, 2023 7:13 AM

@JonKnowsNothing

You may not be able to answer, loss of hearing, contradictory commands (hands up, lie down, stop moving, shut up, do as I say) resulting in a barrage of lethal firearms.

How does answering questions help you here? These situations have nothing at all to do with Reid interrogation or anything related.

Post 911 in USA, we learned about Black Sites and Jurisdiction Hopping and Rendition Flights.

Again, this is not about the police arresting you for interrogation. If you are kidnapped, neither a lawyer nor the law will help you. Treating a simple interrogation at a police station with torture in Guantanamo bay is simply rediculous. Any advice for the latter is stupid for the former.

Winter • May 25, 2023 7:18 AM

@Matthias U

You assume that the suspect in question is reasonable white, clean (i.e. not obviously homeless), and whatnot.

I would be very interested in any reports of the German police torturing suspects. I am unaware of such cases.

I am also unable to see how “talking to the police” will help any of such subjects.

anon • September 4, 2023 4:52 AM

I was wrong, Mr. Dunn corrected me. It was Danny Dunn, not Encyclopedia Brown. So I can’t remember the 1950s book I read in the 1970’s any more.

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