Schneier on Security

JonKnowsNothing • December 29, 2022 6:54 PM

@lurker, @Clive, All

re: Shortage of egg in the shell

iirc(badly) @Clive is in the UK. The egg shortage in the UK is not due to a change in farming methods. It is caused by a enormous outbreak of Avian Influenza H5N1, which is lethal to birds of all types.

In the UK and other countries, the have been millions of birds culled in 2022 due to outbreaks. It is highly contagious and is often carried by wild birds which infect other birds in passing.

Once an outbreak is determined local veterinary regulations dictate how many birds will be culled and what radius the cull will be. Sometimes farms within a few miles or tens of miles will have to cull their birds.

Culled birds do not enter the food stream. They go right into incinerators or deep ditch burials (1)

So Factor 1: huge outbreak of H5N1 in birds, culling most of the turkey for this holiday as well as chickens and ducks.

Another factor is the cost of feeding the birds. BREXIT didn’t help any farmers in the UK and the cost of feeding the birds with the proper diets skyrocketed. Many farmers have dropped out of raising animals or crops due to the costs involved: feed, fuel, fertilizer.

So Factor 2: Supply chain shortages and cost increases

The one that is likely causing even more difficulties is a legal definition of different types of eggs. A large number of egg farms in UK produce Free Range Eggs. This legal definition requires the birds to be outside a specific number of days per month per year. With the H5N1 outbreaks, all the Free Range producers (eggs and meat) have had to bring their birds inside enormous barns for safety. The problem is, legally, being inside they are no longer Free Range. So the farmers cannot sell their eggs or meat through their normal supply chain. The UK is considering an adjustment to the legal definition but until then those eggs are not coming to the local markets.

So Factor 3: Legal restrictions on sale and regulatory labeling.

H5N1 will preclude outdoor raising of birds for a long time. The virus remains active in the soil and is easily transferred by people taking a walkabout a park to feed the ducks, geese and swans there and then taking another path to a different pond of ducks, geese, swans.

If you want to have a consistent source of eggs, you need to own a hen. Unfortunately, many residential laws and city ordinances classify a hen as livestock. You can own a budgerigar or parrot but not a hen.

Chickens are quite interesting: your own pet velociraptor and superior varmint killer. (2)

===

1) When the COVID infected mink were culled, they didn’t dig the ditches deep enough. There was a fully unpleasant effect of mass burial of millions of mink. They have since dug up all the decomposing mink, and reburied them in a not publicly known location on a military base.

2) New York City, USA has a position to be chief rat exterminator. They would do just as well having a flock of chickens around town, along with some energetic terriers.

JonKnowsNothing • December 30, 2022 5:21 PM

@Clive, @Bryan, ALL

re: Pet, Semi-Feral, Feral, Farmed Chickens

From @Clive’s description, he is referring to feral or semi-feral birds, that have no keeper or owner. This happens. In some places the feral birds are allowed to roam and in other places the birds are killed off. It really depends on the community.

However, if we restrict the discussion to Responsible Ownership, much of those objections go away.

• Birds need veterinary care. Same as dogs, cats, horses. Parasites and other bugs can be dealt with using periodic veterinary care. There is DIY care for common conditions.
• Birds need a sanitary place to live. Just like Scooop-the-Pooop, you gotta clean up the bird cage. There are cage and floor products that keep things sanitary and make clean up easier.
• There are pre-made hen houses you can buy that have room for 1-6 birds. They include nesting space, roosting bars, a small enclosed roaming area with shade covers and rain protection with setup for heat lamps, access doors to the nest boxes and access gate to the cage floor area. These can be setup inside or outside. You do not need to let the hens roam in someone else’s yard. They can be kept indoors, such as an apartment.
• If you are going to setup outside, you need an extra layer of forethought. Foxes have been around for a long time. Other critters like raccoons, dogs, coyotes will take advantage of any weakness in your fencing. Hawks are opportunists and will take a bird from above as fast as the hawk dives.

Like all animals the owners needs to be familiar with the needs of the animal they take under their care.

A home hen is not a major egg production business. A hen will provide 2-4 eggs a week, mostly in spring time. They produce no eggs when it gets cold. It’s up to the owner to be mindful about the needs and the proper care for the animal. To be a good custodian and neighbor.

JonKnowsNothing • December 31, 2022 3:19 AM

@ Clive, Bryan, ALL

re: zoning laws

Indeed zoning laws are a minefield of contradictions. Like many rules they often make little sense in practical terms and on many levels the people making the rules can’t tell a rooster from a hen. The laws are just sound bites for media play.

Chickens come in many breeds, raised and selectively bred by humans for a long time. Originally called Jungle Fowl. Like pigeons, rabbits, and other animals, that humans have turned their attention to, we have bred chickens to fill a variety of niches.

It isn’t grandma’s hen house anymore. (1)

Chickens are omnivores and eat meat when they can get it. Chickens that are stressed will peck at another bird until they kill it. If their diet is not correct, they will pull out their feathers and eat them. They will crack their own eggs just to eat the shells. (2) Birds that are mistreated show mental problems that cannot be repaired. (3)

In California, we have city, country, state and various ordinances that govern where and how anything happens. On a boundary line between city and county, one side of the street can have chickens and the other side of the street cannot. One side can have sheep, cows, horses and the other side cannot. It all depends on which side of the street you live on.

No one should own any animal unless they fully understand the needs of that animal. In theory that makes for good health of the animal and successful interaction with the owner.

Unfortunately, for animals, humans claim 100% life and death control over their lives. Animals get no say in the matter. Humans believe that They Can Own Anything That Money Will Buy . They are correct.

Money will buy animals; both their lives and deaths. That’s what you do when you buy chickens in the market. Buy eggs for your omelette, buy the $5 Rotisserie Bird “Loss Leader” from the Big Box Store. When you buy bacon, or ham, steaks, fish. You are buying the life and death of that animal.

It’s not so easy, after all.

===

1) In times of yore, chickens, their eggs and the money from selling them were given to the woman for her “spending money”. Often she traded the eggs and extra poultry for threads and yardage to make clothes for the family.

2) Modern animal diets are derived from “Feed and Feeding” studies. Large Agri-Biz spends a lot of funds on researching diets for everything from Apes to Zebras. Dogs, cats, fish are common pet foods found in super markets. These studies may include special chambers with temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure are controlled. The amount of oxygen exchange is monitored. The amount of feed (weighted) and weight gain is measured precisely. All waste is collected and analyzed for nutrient uptake. It’s how we know about cow farts. Different diets are determined depending on the animal and the animal’s activity.

• Calves are given different feeds throughout the 18 months until slaughter. Sometimes they are on open grass pastures and other times in enclosed paddocks. The amount of food, fiber, protein varies. The amount of fat in the meat (aka marbling) at time of slaughter is what makes your steak taste “delicious”.
• Horses get one diet depending on how much they work. Doing causal work, 1 or 2 hours a day or 5-10 hours a week they get a basic diet. Horses that are running Flat Racing get a different diet. Horses that are going over Grand National fences get a different diet. For horses the need for roughage, non digestible fiber is very high. Their digestive systems collapse if they do not have enough fiber. Too much protein at the wrong age leads to bone and growth diseases.
• Chickens need one diet when they are not laying (scratch) and different one when they are (laying mash). They need calcium supplements to make strong egg shells. The amount of sunlight and warmth normally determine when eggs are laid. Commercial egg farms don’t wait for spring to get eggs and keep the birds in constant “spring” environment. Unless they are Free Range Eggs which will be harder to find in winter time as “fresh laid” rather than “cold storage”.

3) Humans sometimes buy long lived birds like parrots. Because humans are not parrots, we do not naturally provide a good environment for them. There are sanctuaries for parrots that have been driven “insane” by their human owners.